I think my LSP failed...

I washed my dad's car a few weeks ago. Here were the steps:

1. Soaked with soap and 1Z Blitz APC 1:5.
2. Rinsed
3. 2BM wash
4. Claybar surface contaminants (Uber blue clay)
5. Rinse (at this point, the surface as completely clean)
6. Dried
7. Applied single layer of AG HD Wax (as I planned to follow up building on each successive wash).
8. Removed shortly after application (I guess it wasn't really curing for the recommended 15min before I started removal), but it was somewhat hard on there - like it did cure enough.

I go to wash the car for the first time since then - after we have had tons of rain. And there are loads of contaminants at the rocker panels and the paint is about 50% as smoothe as post-wax.

Did I not let the HD wax cure long enough? Was one coat too few?
Should I have still used a paint cleaner or IPA post-drying? Should I have used a sealant instead?

All suggestions and input welcomed. I'll have to redo this in the next few weeks.

 

Sounds like it did cure if it was starting to harden up and not smear anymore.
Lower areas of the car like rockers do take more abuse, so I would expect them to show signs of lsp breakdown first.
I haven't experienced an lsp that after weeks of rain and driving was as smooth on paint as just after application.

What type of beading did you get after the wash?

When you redo it, go for two thin coats.

 

It doesn't bead into a perfect hydophobic-like form.

It's very asymmetrical. I would have to snap a pic to explain.

I think when I redo it I will do PL as a base and top it with HD Wax.

 

I have had very good luck running PL under my Nubas..... so even if the nuba fails you still have some level of protection and are not caught "naked" so to speak

 

I agree. I usually layer a nuba over a sealant. Also you could have kept the HD wax on longer it wouldn't hurt and removal would've been just as easy.

 

The last time I used HD, i let it cure for over 45 minutes....wiped off super easy.

 

As I looked over your process, I noticed you didn't include what you used as lube for the clay. I also noticed you didn't clean the paint after you clayed the car with unmentioned lube. This could be a partial factor, as well as too few layers.

Last time I did my car (the RX-7) I put 3 layers of HD with 12 hours between each layer for proper cure. I let the wax sit on the car for almost an hour each time and it was easy to take off.

Also, as Rcrew mentioned, the lower areas get beat up a lot more, and with all the acid rain on the ground constantly being lifted to hit the bottom of the car, I'm not surprised at all that it's mostly gone after a few weeks. I'm surprised you even have any left in all sincerity!

My suggestions would be to wash the car over a gain, even if it's just a soaking, after the clay bar has been done and lay down 2 layers instead of just one.

P.S.: Oh, and AG HD doesn't bead perfectly, it makes very large "blob-ish" beads on flatter surfaces, even when freshly applied and removed. I've only seen tight beads on more pronounced angled surfaces, just before they fall to the ground.

 

I am not a big proponent of "topping" most 95% of all paste, liquid waxes a are single layer products. Only the really new coatings products and acrylic sealants can be layered. the acrylics like Car-Lacs line. Klasse aio,Klasse SG, rejex, poly lac, jeff werkstadt, Zaino. More typical polymers and carnauba's contain to many solvents. They will strip the previous layer and lay down a new one. All you really do is insure you have complete coverage and have not missed any spots.

It is in my opinion completely worthless and a waste of time to top a Polymer or carnauba with anything.

The effects of topping a acrylic with either polymer or carnauba is debatable. I tend to believe that it is mostly aesthetic and not durability based.

The second issue is that many car washes are extremely harsh on "waxed" paints. They deal more with getting the car clean. combine the harsher cleaners of the wash soap, with the pollen, dust, and rain and you can see how it might quickly pull off or damage sheeting, or beading.

Personally i prefer sheeting sealants. I differentiate the wash soaps i use for prepping the car for detailing, versus the wash soaps I use for maintenance.

 

^^^^ good points

I agree with the only reason to top a polymer is for looks, and that is why I think alot of people around here do it.
My experience with "topping" is more for looks, I only started doing it when I came on this forum last year, before that I was a sealant only person. I do see some reasons to do it though when it comes to aesthetics.

Also with waxes, I always do at least two to three initial coats, one coat where I live will last about a week........

 

polymer sealants are not as durable as acrylic sealants. when you top them you they will weaken if not be removed completely. The problem is waxes, sealants go on so thin that they do not build up any appreciable level. a 2nd coat only really insures that you have fully covered every surface of the paint. That 2nd will remove the first.

Acrylic sealants bond stronger and they can be layered to an extent. IE aio then SG, but further layers have varying levels of diminishing returns. if you top an acrylic with a polymer or carnauba you run into the same previous problem in multiple layers of "top coat".

One of the biggest things that affects sealants and waxes is ultraviolet light. It will degrade sealants and waxes just like rain water, soaps, and degreasers.

This is not a popular opinion, it is mine though. Anecdotal evidence from a few thousand cars. combined with discussions with 1z, menzerna, and other chemical manufactures.

 

I actually got very nice tight round type beading from Ag hd. This was from washing and coming back to my car during rains. It does tend to blob on the roof with no slope a bit more but most of my lsps do that. I had troubles applying it though, I suspect it does not like cold weather and the applicators suck majorly.

 

im not saying you did anything wrong, but in my experience with AG HD you need to make sure the applicators stay damp for best results, as well as make sure the product doesnt get too warm or it becomes difficult to apply.

 

Man, I go away for a few hours and this thread exploded with info.

To clarify, I used diluted ONR as a lubricant. And only a rinse followed. After thinking of the nature of ONR is, it makes sense why the wax broke down so fast.

I was two weeks over due from laying a second coat. Crap weather got in the way.

Well, a lesson learned. And now I can see how to do it properly. I guess I'll be able to try out a couple more products next time. I needed to make a quick pass with the PC in places anyways.

 

the rinse might have done it too. i usually do a wash after clay just to make sure the paint is really clean!

 

Oh yeah for sure, the applicators have to be damp(i think they mention this in the instructions), and I just use up all the sides since I find it prone to build ups inside the applicator pores. Thinking of putting it on for the summer at least once to see if weather was the problem at the time.

 

i agree, you really need to be diligent about how much product builds up in the pads, as they really are prone to getting clogged

 

Would you mind sharing your preferences on sheeting sealants (I'm not familiar with the 'sheeting' distinction here, so I'd find more info on that helpful too), and some of the soaps you use for prepping vs. maintenance?

 

Guess it depends on the wax. The only other wax that's given me the "bloby" effect is the Victoria's Red Concours. Every other wax had nice tight beads, much like the Crystal Rock on a green Lambo video. And this is only for flat surfaces. On vertical surfaces and angled ones, very nice.

The applicators are an opinion thing. Some like them, some don't. I personally like them, but as mentioned, they need to be re-dampened a few times during the application. Also, not many waxes like to be applied in the cold. lol. I find HD is best applied in 60-70 degree weather, out of direct sunlight.

I think the ONR didn't help. I am not of a fan of ONR alone as clay lube, I dilute it to a different (than suggested) ratio and add an oz of AG shampoo as well for "OMG so amazing" type slickness. Regardless of what you use though, I would always do a degreasing wash or use paint cleaner after the clay bar to make sure the paint is clean and ready for LSP. :thumb:

 

^^^ you do that too, i add a little shampoo as well, I find the ratio given for Lube is not as slick as Luber, or even QD, again Im not a huge ONR fan to begin with...... it was just a cheap alternative to Luber.

 

The current beading