106ff issues

Oh man, 106fa with a blue CCS pad was soooo nice to use yesterday. I had problems using SIP with a green CCS pad, and barely tried it with a white CCS pad. When I decided to use SIP with an orange x-groove pad it was as nice to work with as the 106fa with a blue CCS pad. And the SIP even finished down really well.

I was using a 1:1 IPA to Distilled water wipedown. Too bad I don't own the car I was polishing so that I could keep track of the durability of the WGDPS.

I know a lot of people say SIP with orange and 106ff/fa with white, but I may just skip the white altogether and use blue on the softer paints...I was one handing the 3401 at times ( I know, bad bad bad)

 

You're right, it is user error. People arent using the product the way it was intended to be used. Which either means using the wrong pad, speed, working time, etc. A lot of people suck at detailing.

 

If 106FF or 85RD used with a white pad it should be followed up with a finishing pad. 106FF and 85RD are finishing polishes so they should be finished with a finishing pad. As far as the swelling goes it has happened a couple of times but changed my process and the problem has been fixed.

 

(Menzerna) These polishes were designed to work while in the controlled temperature / humidity environment (working temp range 60 – 800F (15-260C) of a vehicle manufacturer’s paint shop finishing line. It is possible to obtain results with Menzerna polishes utilizing a random orbital polisher; but these products were formulated for use with a high-speed rotary polisher that produces high friction and using the correct pads. By using them in ways that they were not designed for can impact there ultimate performance and the results obtained.

The use of a duel level foam pad (primary / secondary) / single polish correction system; will change the way each polish works in accordance to which pad you use (i.e. use a polishing pad followed by a finishing pad) and will really heighten the paint finish shine.

They appear to work better when the foam pad is ‘primed’; use pad conditioner formulated to reduce dry friction between the foam or wool buffing pad and the vehicle surface. Reducing friction will also greatly extend the life of the pads. Using a pad conditioner also reduces micro-marring and / or dry-buffing of the paint surface and dramatically reduces any dust – Danase Pad Conditioner - Danase Pad Conditioner

 

Anyone experience anything negative while using XMT Pad Conditioner with Menzerna? I have a bottle that came with a pad kit I purchased and have only used it before applying wax/sealant.

togwt...what took you so long?

 

Getting / no strike that - just old:sorry:

 

I have personally never had any issues with PO85RD. However, SIP is a totally different story. When the humidity is too high, GOODNESS, that stuff is AWFUL to use...

 

What do you use on high humidity days? This is of interest of course since we are in the same City.

 

a) These polishes were designed to work while in the controlled temperature / humidity environment (working temp range 60 – 800F (15-260C) of a vehicle manufacturer’s paint shop finishing line. It is possible to obtain results with Menzerna polishes utilizing a random orbital polisher; but these products were formulated for use with a high-speed rotary polisher that produces high friction and using the correct pads. By using them in ways that they were not designed for can impact there ultimate performance and the results obtained.

Note - silicone has an adverse effect on the oils used for surface lubrication and can cause the polish to smear, also be aware that working outside you may have issues like excess humidity, heat, cold, etc that will affect there performance especially with the Nano polish (105FF) as it uses wax as a lubricant (colder temps may cause the wax to harden)

b) Oil cannot hide defects, [/B]but it can actually enhance them, Menzerna uses an oil in water emulsion for lubrication (white mineral oil and glycerine) as a medium to suspend the abrasives in and to reduce the heat generated from polishing; evenly spread the polish at a low rpm over the whole panel until the oils spread. Ensure a uniform even coat, so when you do work the polish in at higher speeds, the abrasives and oil lubrication work in tandem, if you are using a polymer after polishing it will be necessary to wipe-down the paint surface with Menzerna Top inspection, DuPont® Prep-Sol® 3919S™ is a slow evaporating cleaning solvent, but do not allow to dry on paint surface or Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) A surface wipe-down is considered good practice after polishing

c) The use of a duel level foam pad (primary / secondary) / single polish correction system; will change the way each polish works in accordance to which pad you use (i.e. use a polishing pad followed by a finishing pad) and will really heighten the paint finish shine.
(PO 106FA) *Finishing 22911 the up-rated version of P0 106FF, this polish is formulated with very finely milled micro abrasives so they don’t require much to ‘breakdown’ and won’t cause surface marring. They have a sharp edge that can cut ceramic clear coats as well as the more conventional clear coats. It has more surface lubrication, which equates to a longer working time and less dusting. It will remove 2500 - 3000 grit, for surface finishing, cut: 2.5 – gloss 5.0, for LSP ready use a primed White polishing (softer less dense foam (70 PPI) with a light abrasive cutting action) followed by a Blue Final finishing (100 PPI) LC CCS foam pad - 1100 RPM to finesse the finish even more use PO85RD3.02 with a Blue Final finishing (100 PPI) LC CCS foam pad - 1100 RPM

If you think it would be informative I will post the updated version of the AG Menzerna post- let me know

 

SIP with a blue ccs pad?

 

No, 106ff or 85rd with the blue finish pad, they are finishing polishes sip is not.

 

Then what in 106 is hiding the defects?

 

At this point, I don't have a replacement. I check the humidity in my garage at all times and anything above 70% is bunk for SIP. I've learned my lesson, it gums up terribly. No detailing after a rainstorm, that's for sure.

 

What about M105? I guess a bit more abrasive than SIP though.

I just went by my local CarQuest. 50 bucks for UltraFina SE. Makes Menzerna seem like a steal now. PO85RD it is.. no UF for me.

 

M105 would be a very good back up, it finishes down nicely and just go over it with a finish polisha nd you will be all set.

 

That's my understanding as well AR, but isn't PO58RD3.02 the same as SIP? If so, that needs editing by togwt.

togwt, while your posts are most definitely informative and educational, methinks some grammar/editing would help members such as myself avoid confusion.

 

So 106ff seems to be the only one with this issue for some people. What about SIP, PO85RD, IP, Final Polish, and Micro Polish? Do they have any of the same issues. I have been using IP, Micro Polish, and Final Polish for a while now and never had any issues with them.

 

I have only had it with 106ff twice and that was after using a white pad. When used with a finishing pad there is no problems. At first I didn't believe that would happen but I got to look at the two vehicles I did with the white pad and not finishing with a finish pad it had buffer marks.

 

As well as mineral oil Menz uses a wax to facilitate surface lubrication, that why such an emphasis is placed on a wipe-down

 

Quote: togwt, while your posts are most definitely informative and educational, methinks some grammar/editing would help members such as myself avoid confusion."

If you would elaborate on my grammatical errors I will correct them. I would add that I speak / write English as I was born in the UK and the Menz reference numbers quoted are European (US market numbers are sometimes different) Menzerna GMBH & Co. KG, Professional Products -
Coating Repair Product Summery - http://www.menzerna.de/fileadmin/be_user/Dokumente/e_polish.pdf