Beside the PPI there is also the make up of the foam it self....one type is a ureathane foam..I forgot what the other foam is but one is softer than the other and even though the PPI is the same they cut different to to one being soft and one being rigid...and the open cell structure on the softer ones tend to collapse into themselve and causing a lesser cut... it is like on the CCS pads..one is a Euro foam and one a OEM foam....one is softer than the other and they work different also.... Al
Is it possible that each manufacture has a different quality foam being used for there product?:shrug:
This is very useful when comparing different brands of pads...such as LC vs. EDGE and trying to find the equivalent pad. very nice info....most manufacturers list the specs of their pads in the description right?
I'm sure there are but I'm just trying to arrive at a way to compare foam pads.If anyone has a better idea I'm wiling to listen (LC are not forthcoming, they only say we don't rate are foam that way, we use colours. But nearly all mfgs have a different colour grading system----
As far as I'm aware CCS - OEM foam relates to thickness of the pad not density- OEM-style 7/8-inch foam pads - due to the reduced foam thickness tilting a 7/8 inch pad will change the polishing pressure on the surface. These foam pads are flat cut on the top edge, as opposed to a standard 1.25-inch, which have a rounded outer edge for easy transitions over seams and edges and the backing material is cut back 3/8 of an inch around the perimeter of the pad to ensure a safety margin. On the 7/8-ich foam pads the backing material extends to the edge of the pad where it could scratch the paint when working in close corners or around mirrors and wings. OEM-Style pads are designed for high volume pad users where cost is a significant factor
The meaning of life- but I know for certain money can't buy love/happiness. My happiness / meaning to life - find something you love to do and do it to the best of your ability, and help others along the way. I do what I love doing (I've had fifty years practice, so I'm getting better, OH! And I hope I help sometimes by sharing my knowledge / experience
well I have and also others have and posted on other forums that the OEM foam is softer than the one branded the German foam (green)...and you can feel a difference...also the others colors.....say you get a CCS pad from AG and one from Proper auto..well they are 2 different foams...its been posted many times on the textures and differences....there must be 4-6 threads on Autopia alone....I have pads labeled OEM and are 7/8th's and velcro to the edge..just like these ones.... 5-1/4 inch, CCS, OEM Spot Repair Pads OEM-Style, CCS Technology, 6.5 inch Foam Pads pads are made from prepolymer foam polyester foam polyurethane foam..like these...german foam...... Tough reticulated German foam – Not all foam is made equal. This imported German polyurethane foam holds up better to the rigors of polishing and swirl removal than typical domestic foam compositions. The dense, open cell foam resists tearing and minimizes the transfer of heat from the polisher to the paint. AL
"polyurethane foam..like these...german foam...... Tough reticulated German foam – Not all foam is made equal. This imported German polyurethane foam holds up better to the rigors of polishing and swirl removal than typical domestic foam compositions. The dense, open cell foam resists tearing and minimizes the transfer of heat from the polisher to the paint." I take your point on differing criteria i.e. 'compression' of foam, and etc. As far as the above statement, it marketing 'science' ( i.e. the most inexact 'science' of all) "...minimizes the transfer of heat from the polisher to the paint." How, heat is a byproduct of friction, without friction diminishing abrasives cannot breakdown. If the friction heat is not transfered to the paint surface where is it dissipated, through the open cells of the foam, only to be stopped by the backing plate?
"I thought there were a lot more factors", Sneek To expand my original post Types of foam, compression, tensile strength, density, are some of the factors that affect a foams abrasive (cutting) ability. These factors all affect the flexibility of the foam under pressure and torque; 1.Types of foam - reticulated foam is less dense than polymerized foam; due to this density the polish provides the abrasive ability as opposed to the foams composition. 2.Compression / Rebound - a foam pads should be compressed to no more than approx 50% of its thickness 3.Tensile strength – the strength of a material refers to the material's ability to resist an applied force 4.Density - provides a protective cushion allowing foam compression to maintain constant surface pressure and it also lessens machine vibration. It also affects the amount of polish the pad will hold; foams that hold a high volume of product allows the polish to do the cutting, as opposed to the abrasiveness of the foam. If anybody has further information or corrections to the above, please advise / post , I’m always anxious to improve my knowledge
FWIW - this is from experience of various foams and different polishes in practice without considering the numbers/materials behind the foams... Regarding levels of cut variation from using different foams, I do personally find that the increasing the "cut" of a foam pad only increases the over all cut by a notable amount with certain polishes on certain paints... Take the Menzerna PO85RD3.02 Intensive Polish. Use this on a Meguiars yellow foam polishing pad and on many paints you get a good level of cut... Up the foam pad to say a Meguiars burgandy cutting pad and I find no discenable difference in the level of cut on quite a few paints, while on softer paints there is simply an increase in pad induced marring. Stepping up the foam with certain ranges of polishes is not personally an option I would advocate - but this is just my personal feelings, and possible technique related to the way I work polishes... Importantly, other polishes do show a difference - MarkV Mystique for example. Use this on a cutting foam, and you get more cut than using this on a polishing foam. What I believe will be important is the way the pad controls the abrasives. This will not only be pad dependent (size of the pores for example) but also dependent on the size and types of the abrasives in the polish - there's a lot of factors at play, rather than simply the pad itself.
Eric Dunn, LC rep, said something about the profile once compressed against the paint (related to porosity and foam type) determines cut which is more what AL-53 was stating. If all other things are equal (foam type, cell type, compression, pressure, etc) porosity may be a good way.
[Revised / Updated 12/04/08] Foam Pad Selection Criteria: The abrasion or cutting ability of a foam pad relative to its composition, the work is approximately distributed, 60% product, 30% foam composition density, pores per inch (PPI) and 10% pressure applied and/or speed of rotation or oscillation. Factors that affect foam - compression, tensile strength, density, are some of the factors that affect a foams abrasive (cutting) ability. These factors all affect the flexibility of the foam under pressure and torque; •Types of foam - reticulated foam is less dense than polymerized foam; due to this density the polish provides the abrasive ability as opposed to the foams composition. •Compression / Rebound - compression load deflection is the measurement of how long the foam takes to regain shape after under certain pressure, foam pads should be compressed to no more than approx 50% of its thickness •Tensile strength – the strength of a material refers to the material's ability to resist an applied force •Density - provides a protective cushion allowing foam compression to maintain constant surface pressure and it also lessens machine vibration. It also affects the amount of polish the pad will hold; foams that hold a high volume of product allows the polish to do the cutting, as opposed to the abrasiveness of the foam. Foam pad thickness - 1.25 inch pad thickness was set as an industry standard because it prevented residues and provided insulation from friction heat from reaching the backing plate, either of which could compromise the Velcro® delaminating backing material. There is a safety margin between the edge of the baking material and the foam with this ‘standard’ foam pad. This foam density provides a protective cushion allowing foam compression to maintain constant surface pressure and it also lessens machine vibration. Like all things related to tools, pad thickness comes down to personal preference. I should also state that a 7/8th- inch thickness foam has it backing material flush with the edge of the pad, while the 1.25-inch has a safety margin between the edge of the baking material and the foam, there is also has a cost saving on the 7/8 – inch foam Pores per inch (PPI) - the greater number of PPI generally equates to foam that is softer; and has less abrasive ability, less density, more porosity and easier compression Abrasive Cutting Foam (40 pores per inch) Medium Cutting Foam (50 pores per inch) Light Cutting Foam (60 pores per inch) Finishing Foam (70 pores per inch) Fine Application (80 pores per inch) Ultra-Fine Finishing (100 pores per inch) The thicker consistency products (i.e. a hard wax) seem to work best a more porous pad; a very tight pad used with these types of products seems to load up and clog the pad, which in a turn leads to product clumping. When applying light consistency products (i.e. liquid polymer) a more porous pad will absorb and waste product Going through the grits - What does this mean?” No it’s not a reference to eating breakfast in Georgia! It’s a very similar idea to ‘Least aggressive first’ it refers to the process of using different grit finishing papers of progressively finer grit or foam / wool pads with progressively denser pads to get a smooth finish. By going through the grits each progressive piece of grit finishing paper or pad removes the scratches from that previously used. Always start with the least abrasive combination, i.e. a machine polish and the least aggressive foam / wool pad. If that combination doesn't remove the imperfections, using the same machine polish and change to a more aggressive pad, if the surface imperfections remain, then step-up the abrasive polish and use the least next level (abrasive) What is meant by a 'grit' number? When talking about finishing paper "grit" is a reference to the number of abrasive particles per square inch of finishing paper. The lower the grit number the more abrasive the finishing paper and conversely, the higher the grit number the smoother the finishing paper. This makes sense if you imagine how small the particles on an 1000-grit finishing paper would need to be to fit into a 1 - inch square. Scratches are identified by the equivalent marks that would be made by finishing paper grit (i.e. 2500 grit finishing paper would require a 2500 grit rated polish and pad to remove them) Foam Pads are also rated on a grit number - that is to say the scratches they will remove after using grit finishing paper along with a similarly rated polish(i.e. 2500 grit rated pad and polish will remove the marks left after using 2500 grit finishing paper) - 800 -1000 grit Heavy - (Compound) levels and removes heavy defects - CAS = 8/10 1200 grit Heavy - levels moderate to heavy defects - CAS = 7/10 1500 grit Medium - levels light to moderate defects - CAS = 6/10 2000 grit Moderate - levels light defects and removes hazing - CAS = 5/10 2500 grit Light - levels swirl marks, light defects and removes hazing - CAS = 4/10 3000 grit Fine - very minor corrective ability, burnishes paint to high gloss CAS = 3/10 The general rules for foam pads; • Pad size; with smaller pads you gain increased control and manoeuvrability. • Smaller pads generate more friction (heat) with a PC, which breaks down polishes by generating energy over a concentrated area. • The random orbiting motion of the PC generates the most power in the centre of the pad (i.e. area of a 6.5 – inch pad is 33 – square inches compared to the area of a 4 – inch pad, which is 12.5 – square inches) This additional cutting power will facilitate the removal of deeper imperfections • The opposite is true with rotary buffers. The speed of the outer edge of a smaller (radius) pad is slower than that of a larger (radius) pad. This helps reduce the amount of friction generated, which makes polishing tighter areas much safer. •The coarser the abra•sive, the faster the cut •The more aggressive the pad, the faster the cut •Wool cuts faster than lamb’s wool, foamed wools are next, then foam. •Foam pads generate more friction induced heat than wool pads To centre the foam pad on to the PC backing plate, set it upside down with the Velcro backing plate facing up (this is easier if the side handle is attached). Using the tips of your fingers as spacers against the edges of the backing plate, you can centre it with near perfect results most of the time When removing the foam pad from the backing plate do not just grab the foam and pull or you may find it separates, hold the Velcro and gently pull the pad to prevent any damage. Backing plate- a 5-ich diameter backing plate when used with a 61/2-inch foam pad allows a ¾ -inch `safety' margin' between the edge of the backing plate and the foam pad. To ensure compatibility of fit with a Porter-Cable the post adaptor should be 5/16inch-24. Closed Cell Structure (CCS) Foam Pads: Lake Country Mfg., Inc. - Products - CCS Foam Pads - Lake Country Mfg., Inc.- Products - CCS Foam Pads Pad Application Guide - Lake Country Mfg., Inc.- Products - OEM Patent Pending Closed Cell Structure (CCS) Technology™ Lake County Mfgfrom Reisgies Schaumstoffe, Gmbh., Germany developed for and used by Mercedes-Benz. These pads are manufactured from thermally reticulated, urethane foam with an open cell structure, with a layer of engineered, instant rebound foam between the pad and the backing plate to absorb off-axis movements while keeping the pressure of the pad on the surface constant. The newer, harder, scratch-resistant clear coats require longer polishing times to remove swirls, spots and defects improves polish performance by slowing and controlling the rate of polish absorption. Quality foam pads used for detailing are manufactured from specially engineered European foam, a blend of thermal reticulated polyurethane with a 90% open cell structure, created specifically for compounding, polishing and finishing vehicle surface paints. This type of foam allows air to circulate through the pad to reduce heat build-up. CCS technology – these foam pads are easy to use, they improve operator control, prevent product waste, reduce surface ‘spot’ heat and help to positively improve polishing end results. The secret to successful machine polishing is using the correct type and size of foam pad, and the correct machine operating speed (RPM) Foam pads are available in various sizes from 3.5 to 8.0- inches diameter, but I have found that for the application of a compound or polish the optimum size of a foam pad for the whole of a vehicle panel (i.e. trunk, hood, fender, etc) is 6.5 x 1.25– inch, that has an effective contact area of 5.5 to 6.0- inches. For ‘spot repair’ on a specific surface blemish or paint defect my preference is a 4- inch pad as this allows me to focus on the problem area without affecting the surrounding area. Do not use the same pad to apply differing products as cross contamination will reduce the effectiveness or completely negate their purpose altogether. A new or freshly cleaned pad must be used with each type of car care product. The longer you polish with conventional foam pads, the less effective they become because polish migrates below the working surface of the pad; the pad dries out. Closed Cell Structure technology solves this problem using strategic patterns of partially closed foam cells. These cells slow the rate of polish absorption, gradually releasing polish as needed by the operator. CCS pockets reduce surface tension, prevent pad skipping and allow the operator to run the pad flat on the working surface. These foam pads provide ample surface contact to effectively work the paint. The pockets are small so they don't affect the amount of foam continuously touching the paint during operation. Standard foam pads are flat-cut, CCS foam pads have the top edge rounded over because it prevents pads from snagging while working in tight spaces. Note: you should always be able to clearly see the (open/unclogged) pores of the CCS; pads or you’re using too much product Priming a foam pad - if you were to apply polish to a body panel, and then place an LC CCS pad on the surface and turn the machine on, it would be very difficult to control. This is due to most of the pad being "dry". To prime (or season) a pad, lightly mist it with distilled water, slightly raise the back of the machine so you are working with the top 1/3 of the pad. After polishing for a minute or two the pad will become more evenly saturated with product and actually become softer from heat build-up(seasoned). At this point, you can safely transition from a tilted up to a flat polishing position. Every time you put a fresh CCS pad on your machine you should prime and then season it for a minute or two before "flat" polishing. The appropriate combination of polishing steps (Compounding - Polishing - Finishing) depends on the colour, quality of the paint surface and the desired finish quality of the paint surface. Flexible backing plates - used with the CCS 5.5 inch and CCS 6.5 inch pads. High strength moulded urethane grip-easy edge for fast, easy pad changes, durable moulded polyurethane construction, flexible centre hub ideal for surface contours, plated steel threaded insert and steel reinforced inner construction - http://www.detailersdomain.com Always use the recommended size backing plate for the sized pad you are using. Never use a backing plate that is larger than the foam pad or disc. Lake County (LC) colours and abrasive ratings- Key - (C) Compounding, (H) Heavy, (M) Medium, (L) Light, (F) Finishing (Fi) Finessing •Yellow (C) CCS Foam Compound Cutting •Orange (M) CCS Foam Compound / Polishing •Green (L) CCS Foam Cutting/Polishing •White (L) CCS Foam Polishing •Black (F) CCS Foam Finishing •Blue (Fi) CCS Foam Finishing •Gold (Fi) Concours Foam Finesse Finishing Yellow & Orange Cutting: These CCS pads have the highest level of cutting ability and are used with heavy levellers and light compounds. (Yellow has slightly more texture than the orange) White & Green Polishing: These CCS pads are used more than any other. They have a mid-range cutting ability and are used with polishes, glazes and light to medium levellers. (White has slightly more texture than the green) Black & Blue Finishing: These CCS pads have no cutting ability and are used for applying finish products. Use with liquid waxes and sealants. (Black has slightly more texture than the blue) Gold Concours Finishing: These CCS pads have no cutting ability, because the foam used is actually softer than the "instant rebound" foam used in our polishing pads, these pads automatically absorb any off-axis motion. If you're finishing a show car with custom paintwork or just want the best shine on your daily driver 1. Yellow Cutting Foam Pad - Use this pad to apply compounds or polishes to remove severe oxidation, swirls, and scratches. An 80% open cell foam it is the most aggressive foam and should not be used on new or like-new paint finishes. Always follow this pad with an orange pad and a fine polish and then a white pad to refine the paint until it is smooth. 2. Orange Light Cutting Foam Pad- mid range, less than 50% open cell high density foam (60 PPI) for scratch and defect removal. Use this pad with polishes and swirl removers. It’s an all around pad that will work on most light to moderate imperfections. 3. Green Heavy Polishing Foam Pad - the urethane foam that Mercedes Benz selected for their CeramiClear nano-technology clear coats is unique in the industry and different from any of the other foams. In September of 2006 this green, German foam was introduced with Closed Cell Structure (CCS) Technology at Automekanica in Frankfurt, Germany. It produces less spot heating and has a unique compression/load/deflection ratio which means it conforms quickly to contours. It is high strength foam with (60 PPI) yet is softer and more forgiving than regular foams which have 80 pores per sq. inch. This means it can remove minor swirls yet leaves a smooth, haze-free finish. Use this pad to apply compounds or polishes to remove severe scratches and surface marring. This is aggressive foam and should be followed with an orange pad and a fine polish and then a white pad to refine the paint until it is smooth. 4. White Polishing Foam Pad- softer less dense foam (70 PPI) with a light abrasive cutting action for the application of waxes, micro-fine polishes and sealants, this pad has very light cutting power so it’s perfect for pre-wax cleaners. 5. Black Finishing Foam Pad - ultra-smooth foam with no abrasive cutting ability (80 PPI) its composition is firm enough to withstand added pressure during final finishing for removing buffer swirls. It will apply thin, even coats of waxes, sealants, and glazes. 6. Blue Finessing Foam Pad – flat pad has soft composition (100 PPI) for applying glaze, finishing polish, sealants, and liquid waxes. A 99% open cell fat pad provides full contact with paint surface to minimize the pressure applied by the user. Use the blue pad to remove products or for final buffing. 7. Red Ultra soft Wax/Sealant Foam - very soft, imported foam is ideal for applying the final coat of wax or sealant. The foam works especially well when applying liquid waxes or sealants because it is firm enough to keep the majority of the product on the paint, rather than soaking it up. The red foam has no cut or cleaning ability. 8. Gold Concours Finishing Foam Pad - ultra soft foam. CCS foam pads use a layer of engineered, instant rebound foam between the pad and the backing plate to absorb off-axis movements while keeping the pressure of the pad on the surface constant. This is not required with the gold pads because the foam is actually softer than the "instant rebound" foam used in our other CCS polishing pads, these pads automatically absorb any off-axis motion. If you're finishing a show car with custom paintwork or just want the best shine on your daily driver, use CCS Gold finishing foam pads. Lake County (LC) Foam Pad Starter kit- CCS Orange 5.5 -inch Light Cutting Foam Pad CCS White 5.5 -inch Polishing Foam Pad CCS Black 5.5 -inch Finishing Foam Pad CCS Blue 5.5 - inch Finessing Foam Pad * The above foam pads are from Lake County Manufacturing Inc. There is no standardization for the colours used to identify the abrasiveness of foam pads; as a consequence manufacturers adopt their own system of colours, which can lead to confusion Autogeeks (AG) Green foam is very different from Lake County (LC) Green foam although its made and re-labelled by LC Duospur™ Cleaning Tool - this patented tool is effective for "on the fly" cleaning of both foam and wool pads. Features large non-staining nylon spurs for fast cleaning while spinning on the buffer. Also has an abrasive plate on both sides of the tool for reshaping and rebalancing damaged foam pads. Edge® Pad Conditioner - Engineered in consultation with auto-finishing pros, the Edge® Pad Conditioner answers the need for a better way to keep buffing pads in top condition. Ergonomic in-line design and angled head optimize both power and control—use right or left handed Safer long neck and angled grip keep fingers well clear of the spinning pad to prevent skinned knuckles Less fatigue ample, knurled pistol grip and thumb pad allow you to adjust hand position for comfort Never mix polishes on a foam pad and never use a pad that been used for compounding for polishing unless it’s been washed. Product Saturation – it is very important to keep polish build-up to a minimum on the pad. If polish / compound is repeatedly applied the oils / solvents will saturate the foam / wool, changing its composition thereby altering its abrasive abilities. Cleaning foam pads (by hand) – use a spur to clean of excess polish debris. Mix a scoop of 'DP Polishing Pad Rejuvenator' in 3-4 gallons of water before you begin polishing. When you've finished with each pad, place it in the mixture and allow soaking, mild agitation will release the ingrained polish residue. To obtain the best results, rinse the pads and allow them to dry by placing them foam side down, thus allowing the water to drain out of the foam. Pinnacle XMT Polishing Pad Cleaner contains a degreasing agent that breaks up oil and eliminates every last trace of residue. Soap or detergents can leave a residue of its own, so there is no soap in this cleaner. Intense cleaners and degreasers break up oily deposits left by car care products so the pad rinses completely clean. This pad cleaner is ready to use in a convenient pump spray bottle. Cleaning foam pads (by machine) - Lake County (LC) System 2000 works with a combination of agitation and detergent. The agitator wheels do all the work. You just hold the polisher. You’ll not only have clean pads, you’ll have clean hands. Once you’ve washed the pad, simply tilt the machine so the pad is out of the water. Continue running the polisher to remove the excess water. All the sling-off is contained within the bucket so there’s no mess. The System 2000 Pad Washer comprises; 1. Main Agitator Housing – this sits inside the bucket and houses the 9 agitator wheels. You can adjust the height of the housing to suit your polisher by removing the three adjustable screws from the legs and replacing them at the desired height. The agitator housing is factory-set at 3 inches below the lid opening. 2. Lid with Closable Covers – Swing the covers open to insert the pad (while attached to the buffer). Close the covers to keep sling-off from the pad inside the bucket. At the bottom of the lid’s opening is a cradle for the polisher. Rest the polisher on this cradle when drying the pad. The lid itself is held on the bucket with two housing clamps. To remove the lid, push the clamps out and lift the lid off (avoid lifting the lid by the clamps.) 3. A five 5 Gallon Bucket – the entire cleaning process is contained within the bucket to keep your garage, and your freshly detailed vehicle, clean. Directions: • Pour approximately 1 ounce of pad cleaning powder into the bucket and fill it with 3-4 gallons of water. The amount of water may vary according to the height of the pad cleaning plate. The water level should be about 3-4 inches below the top of the pad cleaning plate. The grey pump wheel shown in the picture brings water up to the pad. Reattach the lid. • Place the used pad (while attached to the polisher) in the opening in the lid. Close the lid covers. • Operate the polisher at a low speed while holding the pad flat against the pad cleaning plate. Set your rotary polisher to a maximum speed of 1500 to 2000 RPM. Slowly rotate the polisher as it runs. • To dry the pad, lift the pad so that it’s not resting on the agitator wheels. • Rest the polisher’s belly on the cradle on the lid. Tilt the pad slightly so it’s not touching the pad cleaning plate • Continue running the buffer for 15 seconds. • Stop the buffer before opening the covers. The pad should only be slightly damp. A few minutes in the sun will completely dry the pad Edge 2000 Foam Pads - since they’re double-sided, you get twice the usable surface area out of every pad, and their own Durofoam holds up to frequent use Yellow Cutting Pad - this pad is aggressive and will cut through deep surface marks and swirls. The yellow pads work well on heavy oxidation and pitted finishes, and will remove wet sand scratches without causing burning. Green Medium Cutting Pad - useful for light oxidation and moderate to severe swirls and imperfections, this pad will yield amazing results on older vehicles, and should be used on vehicles with moderate swirls and imperfections. Add a compound or pre-wax cleaner for a flawless finish. Orange Light Cutting Pad – highly versatile, as it can be used on cars with light to moderate swirls and imperfections, recommend you begin with this pad if you are unsure how deep swirls are, moving up to a Green Medium Cut Pad if necessary. Blue Polishing Pad - great for regular use, it will leave surface areas scratch-free and smooth while still removing light swirls and imperfections. Use with wax and polish to apply a fine gloss. White Ultrafine Finishing Pad - ultra smooth and ultra soft, the white pad leaves a bold, crystalline gloss on new and just-detailed vehicles. Apply waxes, sealants, and glazes with the white pad. As with all Edge pads the Edge Wave Pads do not require a backing plate. They attach to your polisher using the Edge 2000 Drive DA Adapter (E-210), which screws into your Porter Cable 7424 or other dual action polisher. Information resource- 1.Lake County Manufacturing (LC) website 2.Automotive Detailing Inside & Out, A Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist"– by Jon Miller © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved This collection of detailing articles is one of a series of informative, knowledge based, unbiased articles dedicated to the automotive detailing enthusiast or professional detailer in search of development and education Copyright and intellectual property rights- © All original material is copyright, unless otherwise stated, and may be copied and distributed for non-commercial purposes only provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original material and a reference to © TOGWT ™ is included, any unauthorized use of these materials may violate copyrights and/or trademarks.
