First of all, let me congratulate Jimmy of Lucci Elite Detail on being of the 23rd Issue of La Vita Lamborghini(He has a 4 page spread), it may not be out yet but I have to catch the magazine online so I don't know. Secondly I was reading the current version of La Vita and it has some information on SV products (Issue 22)...now my perception on products is that all products in the market are good even the ones that are sold in dollar stores so long as they are not harmful to the paint of the car or yourself. I mean if you can use "rocks in a bottle" as compound and make it look as good as the SHIT "FG500" then that's your skill, and skill always triumph over products. Anyway they go on about this article about using "natural carnauba waxes" with all these exotic ingredients to feed paint and basically diss up "all in ones", what I believe to be turtle wax products but can go as far as D151 or Poli-seal since there all in one's. My question and know this sounds stupid but "does your paint need to be feed" I mean is SV is saying it then it must be true. TOGWT is going to kill me for asking this question, he gets mad at people claiming to "feed leather" lol Also I apologize if this starting of this post hinted disrespect to one brand over the other. I do not mean to put down any brand or person in this thread, just keep to answering the question as well as LOLing with me. It's about what you do with the products that make the detail, not the products themselves. BTW your clients don't give two S**T's about what product you use, if they did they would be doing the detail themselves or you passed the "product enthusiasm" to them
BTW I propose we start calling Jimmy "The Bull Herder" or "The bug squashier" as he does many bull's and bugs (If that sounds dirty at all then mission accomplished)
Well, for example - Seal Feed - adds moisture to trim do it won't dry out. Makes sense. As far as paint. I asked a reputable Detailer what he suggested for protecting paint that had the clear coat fail - he said to add moisture to it like with a gloss followed with LSP. Also makes sense to me. Same with leather, leather can dry out. So basically feeding is adding moisture back to something.
Understandable but I don't know is moisture is the right word, I mean in this article there talking "The paint will starve over time" I think there referring to Oxidation, but does a 'nauba really feed your paint? They also use the sentence " 'nauba restore lower levels of the paint" <-I'm not sure about that. Maybe it's true
Paint: New 2 part paints (Base/Clear) no you will not be feeding anything...yes the clear coat is permiable and you can get clear coat staining but only certain conditions but the clear will not absorb the oils to nourish and prevent drying out of the paint. Old school single stage paint (color only) yes they could take more "oils" and it would re-wet and paint but not really that much. Very early early pants where the ones where the marketing came from. Now a days it just marketing and what the normal person still remembers. Leather: Most coated leathers will not absorb much and really the best way toe maintain is to keep the surface clean of oils so it does not break down the clear coat on the surface of the leather. Un-coated leathers yes they need some more care and need nurishing as they can dry out after a good amount of time. Clear coat failure can happen because of many reason but mostly from the breakdown of the polyurethane layer itself from UV and or delam from the color coating causing it to bubble and start pealing. Adding "oils" will not prevent this. Case in point parents 1998 Maxima never really wax's or anything other then some washes and paint still not have any issues, rough yeah from contamination but holding up well as any modern paint should. Parents got a new car and said I would clean her up and wax it and dad said no reason paint will last the lifetime. Why is he so sure, he works in the industry and specializes in car paints (interior and exterior) and does formulations for them. I will still give it a good detail just to make it look good and help stay clean longer, i.e. Wolf BodyWrap.
Isn't the whole point of painting a car (other than good looks) is to protect the metal chassis and all metal panels from rust? If paint was like leather and it allowed moisture to go through, that moisture would quickly form rust.
Yes. Modern paint is a hardened catalyzed coating. We all know clear is designed to be sacrificial and prevent UV damage but we all know in cases of neglect this is not always possible. Decontamination is wise only to prevent failures attributed to surface integrity breach. Otherwise modern paint does not need "feeding". Old urethane and cellulose paints used to benefit from stuff way back when, however this is not the case now. Soft materials(seals, leather, vinyl) will naturally benefit from moisturization and hydration because they are designed to be pliable to a degree, relentless sunlight and dry air equals zero heat dissipation that will otherwise lead them to damage.
Water-borne paint utilizing modern paint technology, using water-based high solid/low solvent urethane that for environmental reasons (low volatile organic compounds (VOC) produce a less dense (softer) and more porous finish; its molecules are not tightly linked together as t has a chain-link type structure, which makes it more porous than acrylic or oil based high solvent content paint systems. • E-Coat - an anticorrosion coat applied to both sides of the steel to prevent corrosion • Primer 18 µ - Initial protection layer with texture to assist the pigment layer in bonding to the metal beneath • Base Coat 15 µ - The basecoat is usually 0.5 to 1 mil thick • Clear Coat - The clear coat provides gloss plus physical protection from the elements, including ultraviolet rays Modern paint (unlike Nitrocellulose Lacquer) does not require ‘feeding’ with oils to stop it from drying out (starving ) Finished leather only requires hydration (transpiration and evaporation of moisture) so the only ‘conditioning’ it requires is water. The myth of feeding both paint and leather came about as the finish used on both auto paint and leather was Nitrocellulose Lacquer Solvent-based paints - are categorized by the ratio of solids (resins, pigments, binders, etc.) to liquids (solvents) In the US manufacturers are required to use high solids paints, with a ratio of about 60% solids to 40% solvent. In order to produce a better flow rate a higher percentage of solvents is required, however due to recent volatile organic compound (VOC) limit restrictions; the 60/40 percentage cannot be exceeded. These restrictions stem from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) limits on volatile organic compound (VOC), which are in almost all solvents. In other countries, these restrictions either don't exist or are more lenient, allowing manufacturers to use low solids paints (as low as 30% solids to 70% solvent), which tend to have a smoother appearance. To combat these restrictions paint companies are developing new technologies. High or low solid, is a ratio of paint to solvents - High is 60/40) that leaves more material (coverage) once paint has cured. Low is (30/70, which means the paint contains more solvents, once they have out-gassed (evaporated) leaves a thinner coat (paint thickness)
Made a thread on MOL hoping to clear up some of the myths and misconceptions floating around on the internet. Here you go, Paint and Clear Coat
AFAIK, soft clears are the ones that scratch easy, so having it "dry out" and become harder would be beneficial, would it not? Similar to how Mercedes has Ceramic clear-coats that are hard as rock.
Modern auto paints do not contain oils, its the resin binder system that dries out, leading to structural instability. This is a consequence of ultra violet (UV) radiation, which instigates a chemical change that reduces the polymer's molecular weight. As a consequence of this change the material becomes brittle, with a reduction in its tensile, impact and elongation strength. Discoloration, a chalky appearance and loss of surface smoothness accompany photo-oxidation. Infra red (IR) radiation or high surface temperature significantly increases the effect of photo-oxidation. So how can a dense (hard) clear coat be so easily scratched? Force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. (Newton's third law of motion) That’s why a micro fine thread that is twice as fine as silk and a 100 times finer than a human hair, in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint. And the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger). This can best be summed up as: your car’s paint finish, though it may feel hard, is actually rather soft. Nearly everything else that comes in contact with it, though it may feel soft, is harder by comparison and will scratch it with enough pressure – sometimes just the slightest of pressure.
I may have phrased that a little harshly. I apologize if I offended you. I simply asked a question which "typical logic" would agree with, to which you didn't give an answer. I am aware that paints are soft, porous surfaces, as I have been in the automotive industry long enough to learn a few things. I based my question on the following: A fresh paint cannot be polished because it needs to cure, and while it eventually becomes hard to the touch and can be polished, it will consistently keep getting harder at a slower rate for the rest of it's usable life. Keeping in mind it will always be a soft material, it aging and becoming harder is something which could make polishing it much easier. Which follows suit to "we shouldn't "feed" the paint to keep it soft, simply protect it from other exterior factors." I in no means claim to be an expert on any of this and was asking the question to see if what my simple-minded logic said made any sense.
I can't stand all the 'nourishing the paint' bullcrap that so many manufactures use to describe their products and it seems like the more expensive the products are the more they use that kind of language. If the paint is modern base/clear coat then it is BS. The porous nature of the clear coat crystal structure allows for water and what not to enter into the clear coat structure. I've heard estimates that a mid size car's clear coat can hold about a liter of water. So we use an LSP to try to seal up the porous nature of the clear coat to keep the water and contaminates out to prevent damage from that. And now most products have UV inhibitors to help the clear coat do that part of its job which should prolong the life of the clear coat. So the LSP is to seal and help block UV not to feed the paint.
